MTB Dirt Mountain Bike Forums forum - Topic - Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

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Mad Skillz
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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 09:21am

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Hi Guys,Just wanted some advice on fuels for long distance riding. In particular I wanted to get something to supplement my water intake on Saturdays Dirt Dogs ride. It is 58km ride, and should be a 4hr+ ride.I have done a fair bit of reading on how to balance water intake with supplements, and the Hammer Perpetuem seems to be the best balanced product. Has anyone used this, and if so, how did you find it? I know 58km isn't all that much to some, but I want a simple solution to electrolytes, sodium etc. and this seems to cover all bases.Any alternatives, please feel free to mention also

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WoodyJNR

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Mad Skillz
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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 09:30am

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Mate I havn't tried the Hammer stuff although have heard a lot about it to be honest. For a ride like your talking (60k) personally I would just be using water although would have an electrolyte drink prior to riding and would also ensure I had food stuffs with me to munch on no later than 2hrs into the ride.I always take many small things to eat and rely heavily on vegi-sangers eaten frequently thru my rides, Nutri-grain bars and museli bars as I cant stomach the gels. If your pack is big enough then carry a gatorade to have along the way with your camelback water For a 24hr it would be different with more supplementation with elctrolytes vs water but still majority I believe should come from water. toocents WoodyJNR

Toenails

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 10:08am

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Peanut paste & honey sandwiches work well for me for carb replenishment. For electrolyte replacement I use Endura, made up weak (1 scoop in a 600ml bottle) consumed after the ride.

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Grim Ripper
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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 10:50am

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nuun tablets are good for long rides too (if you can find them).

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krystian

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 11:30am

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Lucozade is an awesome instant energy hit. But you also need something longer lasting (lower GI) to sustain you.

Mereel

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 11:56am

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Perpetuem is carb + proteinYou need to mix it with some electrolyte powder/liquid or take some electrolyte pills to get all you need.I really hate the taste of soy protein so when I used perpetuem I mixed it with gatorade powder which helped the taste a bit and added electrolyte.Hammer also do another product called Heed which is carb + electrolyte which is probably more what you need for your ride.You may or may not like the taste I think the Hammer site talks about mixing this with Perpetuem.Personally I use water (hydration pack), gatorade powder + water (bottle), and Hammer Gel (little squeeze bottle).

aaronwray

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Mad Skillz
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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 12:56pm

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Nutrition and hydration is very personal. I personally like water in camelbak, gatoraide/poweraide in bottles, museli bars (In my case nut bars because I don't eat a lot of gluten), banana's and if it's quite long I'll make a sandwich (gluten free bread) and maybe an endura bar (chocolate mmmmm). I like to have something solid in my stomach some people don't like that though. It takes trial and error. When I first got into longer events I was eating various gels and they made me sick. I also found I need a lot of energy while riding I'll normally aim for I think around 1000kj an hour (museli bar plus some gatoraide) give or take depending on mood and how much I had prior to riding.

Tazydevil

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 02:56pm

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Nurition is really personal but I think that even for the ride on the weekend u need a bottle of water and a bottle of electro.Make some little snack to eat, take some muslie bars, snakes, jelly beans. dont be sucked in to using powerade or gatordade it is just coloured sugar, wont last long. Treat your body well if you but good quality stuff into your body it will thank you.Couple of Options:EnduraSIS- Go ElectrolyteSIS- PSP22 EnergyVerofitNuun Tablets, easy to transportShotz Tablets, easy to transportAccelerade

questeds

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 03:15pm

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So for this kind of distance, should I not be concerned with Sodium depletion etc. but more with KJ's and electrolytes? Sounds like this is the case. I can do sakes and jelly beans for sure and maybe a banana and a couple of museli type bars should see me through. Plus of course the obligatory water!!!

Tempest

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 03:28pm

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For your first long ride, you will need water, and maybe some electrolyte type drink but most importantlyEat Real Food.Like a sandwich, or some anzac biscuits etc. Make sure you eat a decent brekky too. You will get most of your salts from food, and will prevent cramping by hydrating properly in the days before.

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Whippetboy

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 04:19pm

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Everyone's different so you have to TRIAL ANYTHING YOU CONSIDER before race day. I personally have switched to the full hammer program and will never look back. I always bonked late in races and finished knackered. I was totally trashed after the D2D 12h solo but then changed to Hammer and rode the Merida 24h and finished that a whole lot fresher than the 12 and in a much better position!World champ Willo uses solid foods, as Tempest has suggested. Others in his league do as well. For me and many others I spoken to, though, we find the opposite works for us. I rode on an almost complete liquid diet on the 24h and never wanted for anything (...anything besides JimmyR who was chasing me to fall off his bike!! ). If you do go with Hammer, I recommend going whole hog and incorporating the gels, tablets and perpetuem as it works best as a complete system.That said, I'm now going to backflip and say that this is for endurance riding. Under 100km I never touch Perpetuem, though I do recommend other Hammer products like HEED, hammer gels and of course the endurolyte tablets which are the key ingredient to the whole system's success. Hope this helps!

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Grim Ripper
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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 04:28pm Updated 16-06-2009 04:31 pm

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A very wise man once told me "Race to train; train to race" meaning, you should be eating the exact same things in your training as in your racing. hydration, nutrition are as important in training as riding, or mechanical prep etc. You cant expect to feed/hydrate your body things its not used to, at intervals its not used to during conditions its not used to, and perform well.Ive managed to work out what my body responds to, and have learnt to listen to a bit more than I have in the past (HTFU just doesnt get you over "the wall" ), and Im by no means an expert, or have it down pat. Like most have said, its individual, and takes alot of trying and testing to get it right.Get out there this weekend, smash out 150km, load yourself up on food, listen to your body, be regimented and strict on yourself in terms of timing to eat, drink etc. toocents

Token Kid

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 04:51pm Updated 16-06-2009 05:09 pm

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Hammer - Perpetuem and Heed I've heard a lot of great things about perpetum but have only sampled it. Apparently you can adjust the amount in your drink to how many calories you burn, so you don't have to eat while racing. I got heed for free and its very good! You can mix them up and pretty much turn them into goo unlike some other products and without the taste going disgusting! Infinit helped Chain Gang with some mixes at the Merida 24, the carb one worked well, not as nice tasting as hammer though and the other one was called "rocket fuel" now that was some serious s**t (its the maximum amount of caffine allowed in a drink, worked very well at 2am)

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Toenails

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 05:04pm

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Quote:Token Kid ... the other one was called "rocket fuel" now that was some serious *** (its the maximum amount of caffine allowed in a drink, worked very well at 2am)

What are we doing to this poor kid?

MADMIKE

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 05:29pm Updated 16-06-2009 10:01 pm

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+1 for great cycling nutrition products.For a shorter ride (4hrs) your body has enough stored muscle glycogen for 60-90mins, depending on your diet. That means you really only need fuel for around 2.5-3hrs. I am a huge advocate of Hammer Nutrition products. Their Perpetuem is a carb/protein mix without adequate amounts of some key electrolytes. It is a brilliant product for sustained endurance, but probably not necessary for a 4 hour ride. Anything longer than 3 hours I would certainly be seriously considering it as part of your nutrition plan though. For the 3hrs or so of fueling your body actually requires on your 4+ hour ride you could probably get by on HEED and Hammergels to supplement additional carb intake as required. Also Hammer's Endurolytes are packed full of everything you will need in terms of electrolyte that won't be provided in light mix of HEED.If you know how much energy you burn per hour, it is simple to calculate how many scoops of HEED and HammerGels are required. 1.5 scoops of HEED and 1 Hammergel per hour will provide around 240-250 calories of energy (recommended hourly intake will range from 200-300 Cal/Hr depending on body size). This is a good starting point. You can adjust from there if you feel you are having too much or too little. I only consume around 500-600ml of fluid per hour mixed with Hammer products. I have experimented with different strengths and mixes. I often mix Perpetuem and HEED in a 1:1 scoop ratio for each hour of racing/training. However strong multi-hour (3-4hr) bottles can be mixed in high concentrations and sipped sparingly throughout your long rides, without gastrointestinal issues or the overwhelming taste of other brands.Endurolytes can be consumed at will (well almost) with recommended doses are up to 6 capsules per hour. With the amount of electrolytes in 1.5 scoops of HEED and the cooler riding conditions, 2 caps per hour should keep you cramp free throughout your ride.You could also try say 2.5 scoops of HEED per hour with no additional gels. Again this will provide roughly 250 Cal/hr. The additional electrolyte consumed in the HEED means you could probably cut your Endurolyte consumption.Each to their own really. It is a matter of finding what works for you. I never bother with solid foods on rides any more, and haven't looked back. I forget real food during, after and even before a training ride or race, instead relying on easily digestable liquid supplements. Race fueling on bananas and peanut butter sandwiches was cool in 1995. Times and knowledge change.

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mikey

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 08:05pm

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Quote:Mereel Perpetuem is carb + protein

Quote from Hammer site at the very bottom of the Perpetium Page

Quote: A modest electrolyte profile is also included in PERPETUEM.

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ZepinAtor

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 08:51pm Updated 16-06-2009 08:53 pm

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Quote:MADMIKE +1 for great cycling nutrition products. Race fueling on bananas and peanut butter sandwiches was cool in 1995. Times and knowledge change.

Couldn't agree more MM

the "Hammer" products sound great (haven't tried them), but I do use Accelerade which is not as tailored as Hammer but does use the magic mixture of 4:1 ratio of carbohydrate/ protein. I believe from experience that protein replacement every 2hrs is one of the most important nutritional needs overlooked by most inexperienced riders.In my opinion I would NOT rely on- Sandwiches -Muesli bars -snakes/lollies -Coke/or any caffeine rich beverage -Gatorade/ Poweraide/Staminade toocents

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juscruzin

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Hammer Perpetuem Nutrition/Re-Hydration

June 16, 2009 09:15pm

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Couldn't agree more MM the "Hammer" products sound great (haven't tried them), but I do use Accelerade which is not as tailored as Hammer but does use the magic mixture of 4:1 ratio of carbohydrate/ protein. I believe from experience that protein replacement every 2hrs is one of the most important nutritional needs overlooked by most inexperienced riders.In my opinion I would NOT rely on- Sandwiches -Muesli bars -snakes/lollies -Coke/or any caffeine rich beverage -Gatorade/ Poweraide/Staminade toocents I have to second this in a big way.However, there is still a place for Bananas, raw nuts, and dates. They are cheap, easily digestable, taste great, keep well in a plastic bag/own skin, and have all the required ingrediants for sustained output.