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Grim Ripper
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Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 09:09am

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Does BQ offer legal advice to members? Maybe they can shed some light?

29er - Thats right, 3 inches bigger than yours.

Mad Aussie

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Mad Skillz
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Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 09:16am

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Looking through the accompanying PDF in your link I can't see anything about riding 2 abreast at all. Strange. Doesn't appear to the same document I remember reading a few years back. Will have to dig deeper if possible.

But, if those rules stated above are indeed correct now then that's the sort of thing all motorists need to know. In my vision the campaign would need to show cyclists as peoples mothers, fathers, children, doctors, surgeons, etc etc. Put a human face to the helmeted target motorists are seeing.

Mad Aussie

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Mad Skillz
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Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 09:47am

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I think I was reading this document ... The Aust Road Authorities and Bicycles Rules - http://www.woj.com.au/AustRoadRulespts1-21.pdf

Here's a couple of interest ...

2 Abreast ... seems like it's totally legal .. not sure where I got that it 'depended' ... perhaps from conversations with police officers I know.
However, I maintain that common sense is needed and exercising this right is not always the best choice in my opinion. I'd personally like to see this rule changed. In the meantime though it should become a commonly known rule for all road users.

Rule 151 - Riding a motor bike or bicycle alongside more than
1 other rider

(1) The rider of a motor bike or bicycle must not ride on a road that
is not a multi-lane road alongside more than 1 other rider,
unless subrule (3) applies to the rider.
Offence provision.
Note Bicycle, motor bike and multi-lane road are defined in the
dictionary, and rider is defined in rule 17.

(2) The rider of a motor bike or bicycle must not ride in a marked
lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane,
unless subrule (3) applies to the rider.
Offence provision.
Note Marked lane is defined in the dictionary.

(3) The rider of a motor bike or bicycle may ride alongside more
than 1 other rider if the rider is:
(a) overtaking the other riders; or
(b) permitted to do so under another law of this jurisdiction.
Note Overtake is defined in the dictionary.

Roundabouts ... multi-lanes means if you are in the outside lane in a bike you must give way to exiting traffic if necessary.

Rule 119 - Giving way by the rider of a bicycle or animal to a
vehicle leaving a roundabout
The rider of a bicycle or animal who is riding in the far left
marked lane of a roundabout with 2 or more marked lanes, or
the far left line of traffic in a roundabout with 2 or more lines
of traffic, must give way to any vehicle leaving the roundabout.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Bicycle and marked lane are defined in the dictionary, and vehicle
is defined in rule 15.
Note 2 For this rule, give way means the rider must slow down and, if
necessary, stop to avoid a collision — see the definition in the dictionary.

Member
Klunker Schlumper
Forum posts: 4324

Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 09:53am

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was just going to post section 151 of the regulations specify 2 abreast is legal at any time, no matter what the road ie single or dual carriageway.

honestly I would urge everyone to have a flick through the regulations. I know I'm a nerd and enjoy stuff like that but it is very helpful to know what you are and are not allowed to do. doesn't mean its safe, but I have had and won arguments with the police because of their lack of knowledge of the road rules. including advising a person about their rights when trying to file a complaint at a police station once. the copper was not impressed that he had to actually follow through following my impromptu advice to the complainant.

pain is temporary, quitting is forever

Mad Aussie

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Mad Skillz
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September 15, 2009 09:58am

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Here's a cool page for cyclistsand motorists alike ... http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/General_information/Cycling/Safety/Safety_tips/

One of the tips in there is this one ...

Use the appropriate lane Do not ride in a 'left turn only' lane if you are going straight through. Move into the through lane early. In a narrow lane, on a roundabout or in slow traffic, it might be safer to take a whole lane.

I do that if I'm turning right at a roundabout, I'm sure there's a law somewhere allowing a cyclist to 'command a lane' in certain circumstances such as this.

And for the motorists ...

Give way when required

Treat cyclists like any other vehicle—give way when required and travel at a safe following distance.

Be patient

Wait until it's safe before overtaking a cyclist. It won't hold you up long and it could save their life. If a cyclist is ahead of you and you are turning left, turn behind the cyclist. Overtaking and cutting off a cyclist is extremely dangerous.

Be fair

Cyclists are legitimate road users—treat them with respect and courtesy. The cyclist in front of you has a family too—it pays to take care.

Remember, most adult cyclists also own a car and pay registration. By choosing to ride instead of drive, cyclists are helping everyone by reducing traffic congestion, pollution and road wear.

Shrek !!!

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Mad Skillz
Forum posts: 777

Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 10:20am

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I wonder if I can keep a horse in my townhouse yard.. That will be fun riding across the story bridge at 7 am in the morning...

not helpful I know.. but it is also one more car off the road.. AND a bicycle as well if you dislike them.. hahahaha

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Klunker Schlumper
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Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 10:34am

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Member
Grim Ripper
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Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 10:45am

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I remember a many years ago when I rode motos, we were getting slammed by the police in the media for being hoons and speeding on the M1...

So, a group of about 80 of us rode to the Gold Coast at 5am, turned around and rode back to Brisbane, taking up each lane and sitting to 90km/hr. We werent breaking the law, and you should have seen the traffic banked up behind us.

Everyone just wants it their own way, and these days people are so self absorbed they're willing to give up less and less of their cnveniences, as they feel theyre entitled to them - regardless of law.

void

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Knob Scrubber
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September 15, 2009 10:50am

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Quote: Ky

So, a group of about 80 of us rode to the Gold Coast at 5am, turned around and rode back to Brisbane, taking up each lane and sitting to 90km/hr. We werent breaking the law, and you should have seen the traffic banked up behind us.

I do believe the law states keep left unless over taking. And that you cannot stay in the right hand lane of a dual carriage way if the speed limit is over 80km/h

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Grim Ripper
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Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 10:52am

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We were overtaking, very very slowly.

Zadam

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Grim Ripper
Forum posts: 1406

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September 15, 2009 10:59am

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Quote: Mad Aussie

Roundabouts ... multi-lanes means if you are in the outside lane in a bike you must give way to exiting traffic if necessary.

Rule 119 - Giving way by the rider of a bicycle or animal to a
vehicle leaving a roundabout
The rider of a bicycle or animal who is riding in the far left
marked lane of a roundabout with 2 or more marked lanes, or
the far left line of traffic in a roundabout with 2 or more lines
of traffic, must give way to any vehicle leaving the roundabout.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Bicycle and marked lane are defined in the dictionary, and vehicle
is defined in rule 15.
Note 2 For this rule, give way means the rider must slow down and, if
necessary, stop to avoid a collision — see the definition in the dictionary.

I'm a bit confused by this one. Does this mean that if you are in the left lane of a 2 lane roundabout, but going straight through the roundabout rather than turning left, you have to give way to people in the right lane taking the exit which would be the left turn for you? This sounds kind of awkward and dangerous, although the alternative is probably just as bad.

void

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Knob Scrubber
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Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 11:13am Updated 15-09-2009 11:14 am by void

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Quote: Zadam

Quote: Mad Aussie

Roundabouts ... multi-lanes means if you are in the outside lane in a bike you must give way to exiting traffic if necessary.

Rule 119 - Giving way by the rider of a bicycle or animal to a
vehicle leaving a roundabout
The rider of a bicycle or animal who is riding in the far left
marked lane of a roundabout with 2 or more marked lanes, or
the far left line of traffic in a roundabout with 2 or more lines
of traffic, must give way to any vehicle leaving the roundabout.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Bicycle and marked lane are defined in the dictionary, and vehicle
is defined in rule 15.
Note 2 For this rule, give way means the rider must slow down and, if
necessary, stop to avoid a collision — see the definition in the dictionary.

I'm a bit confused by this one. Does this mean that if you are in the left lane of a 2 lane roundabout, but going straight through the roundabout rather than turning left, you have to give way to people in the right lane taking the exit which would be the left turn for you? This sounds kind of awkward and dangerous, although the alternative is probably just as bad.

Bike must give way to the red car at all times if ridiing in the left hand lane.

Mad Aussie

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Mad Skillz
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Forum posts: 982

Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 11:21am

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Voids diagram answer that perfectly .. .the answer is Yes. If you want right of way then to go straight through you would have to be in the right lane.

Usually though (unless it's a huge roundabout) this isn't an issue and staying in the left lane is the safest way I think.

Zadam

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Grim Ripper
Forum posts: 1406

Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 11:24am

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Quote: void

Quote: Zadam

Quote: Mad Aussie

Roundabouts ... multi-lanes means if you are in the outside lane in a bike you must give way to exiting traffic if necessary.

Rule 119 - Giving way by the rider of a bicycle or animal to a
vehicle leaving a roundabout
The rider of a bicycle or animal who is riding in the far left
marked lane of a roundabout with 2 or more marked lanes, or
the far left line of traffic in a roundabout with 2 or more lines
of traffic, must give way to any vehicle leaving the roundabout.
Offence provision.
Note 1 Bicycle and marked lane are defined in the dictionary, and vehicle
is defined in rule 15.
Note 2 For this rule, give way means the rider must slow down and, if
necessary, stop to avoid a collision — see the definition in the dictionary.

I'm a bit confused by this one. Does this mean that if you are in the left lane of a 2 lane roundabout, but going straight through the roundabout rather than turning left, you have to give way to people in the right lane taking the exit which would be the left turn for you? This sounds kind of awkward and dangerous, although the alternative is probably just as bad.

Bike must give way to the red car at all times if ridiing in the left hand lane.

Thanks for the diagram, yep that's what I thought it meant. I can see this being somewhat awkward or unsafe in the case of the cyclist entering the roundabout because it is clear, but then a fast driving car coming from the side and entering the roundabout before the slower moving cyclist has time to ride past the roundabout exit. Would this mean the cyclist has to come to a halt on the roundabout in the lane and wait for the car to exit the roundabout? I can just imagine the potential bike rage from cars behind the cyclist going berzerk because the bike stopped in the "middle of the roundabout" and blocked them for 5 seconds...

Shrek !!!

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Mad Skillz
Forum posts: 777

Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 01:42pm

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Here is where I think the law is an ass and I'll do whatever I fricken like..

This pic looks like an excuse to me for more sprint training.. I'd jump onto that centre dotted line and run between the cars around the roundabout just off the back bumper of the car in front.. then move over once I've exited the area.

F those rules.. I'll do what's safe for me... there is no way trying to cross 4 lanes of staright ahead traffic is safe when you've had to stop..

I'm not sure but I like to think that if if I look like I'm trying to make an effort and NOT hold people up, I'll be given a little more creedance.

Mad Aussie

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Mad Skillz
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Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 01:54pm

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If I'm turning right at a roundabout ... I indicate before the roundabout and take the lane I need and keep indicating right up uintil I hit the roundabout. Never had an issue.

If I'm going straight through then I stick as far left as I can and make sure I indicate clearly again. Again no issues other than the old car coming through with me cutting me a bit tight as they exit the roundabout.

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Grim Ripper
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Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 01:56pm

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Thats why I move into the lane, and take it up. If i can see the car Im pacing with is just going straight ahead, I feel safe just sitting off his back bumper and following him through. If I see a left indicator go on, I pull in behind that car and take up the lane and move back to the shoulder/bike lane once Ive exited the roundabout.

But then, Im inconveniencing cars, and that justifies them sideswiping/cutting me off for delaying their world record time to the next red light.

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Klunker Schlumper
Forum posts: 4324

Where will it end?

September 15, 2009 02:31pm

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Quote: Ky

Thats why I move into the lane, and take it up. If i can see the car Im pacing with is just going straight ahead, I feel safe just sitting off his back bumper and following him through. If I see a left indicator go on, I pull in behind that car and take up the lane and move back to the shoulder/bike lane once Ive exited the roundabout.

But then, Im inconveniencing cars, and that justifies them sideswiping/cutting me off for delaying their world record time to the next red light.

yes shame on you Ky. take yourself out the back and flog yourself.