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MTB Dirt Mountain Bike Forums forum - Topic - Where will it end?

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Kenzo

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 10:17am Updated 11-03-2010 10:20 am by Kenzo

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Hey Om.. when you're riding on the road and you want to get into a driveway on the right, how do you do it without turning right?

ADD: I know you are not justifying the actions of the driver - no-one can justify the driver's actions.

BUT - if you are driving and another car (i.e. vehicle) is turning right in front of you, what do you do?

JimR: I am unstoppable, don't even try to stop me.

PtZell

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 10:22am

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Hello Om..

Tell me, if you watch that vid again.. perhaps you can tell me at which point you even see the arm out signal to turn? please? actuall can you tell me if ypu can see any arms, hands or anything other that a view from an eyes perspective?

On that same train, can you see the car indicate to overtake or indicate to cross back into it's lane?

Come and pace it out sometime and measure your distances..

Unfortuantely the vid only gives us about half the info we need to assess the situation.

If you're pulling into a main street in your car, do you wait till there are NO cars in sight? Even if they are over 200 metres away or do you go when there is enough room to safely get out?

yo_jimmy

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 10:29am

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Quote: Kenzo

Hey Om.. when you're riding on the road and you want to get into a driveway on the right, how do you do it without turning right?

It isn't about how he turned right. It is the fact that it is close to the intersection and how would drivers know he wanted to turn at that driveway and not at the intersection ahead? Regardless of rules, his correct actions etc it is obviously not clear to the driver what is happening and this turned into a dangerous situation.

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 10:30am

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Quote: Kenzo

Hey Om.. when you're riding on the road and you want to get into a driveway on the right, how do you do it without turning right?

Stupid answer for a stupid question.

29er - Thats right, 3 inches bigger than yours.

Kenzo

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 10:32am Updated 11-03-2010 10:37 am by Kenzo

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Quote: yo_jimmy

Quote: Kenzo

Hey Om.. when you're riding on the road and you want to get into a driveway on the right, how do you do it without turning right?

It isn't about how he turned right. It is the fact that it is close to the intersection and how would drivers know he wanted to turn at that driveway and not at the intersection ahead? Regardless of rules, his correct actions etc it is obviously not clear to the driver what is happening and this turned into a dangerous situation.

It was not a dangerous situation until the driver turned it into one.

And Ky, as one of our intellectual superiors once said, "Stupid is as stupid does".

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 10:38am

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Quote: Kenzo

It was not a dangerous situation until the driver turned it into one.

This is where alot of us differ from X's fanclub. Some of us see it as an arrogant, dangerous manouvrre which is aimed at militantly combatting a drivers "I own the road" attitude with a cyclists "I own the road" attitude. Guess who's gonna win that war, despite how many battles you think you win in your own little world?

He put himself in that situation with his road manner, and it appears he got the show he was expecting from it.

While the manouvre may be "legal", its not "safe", and sure as hell wasnt "courteous".

I would never make a move like that, ever. If purely out of self preservation.

void

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 10:40am Updated 11-03-2010 10:44 am by void

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The video only shows 7 seconds... maybe X still has footage showing what occurred prior to the mazda overtaking.. ie the rear view camera, and the cars that were queued up behind the mazda as well.

personally - I am with Ky, Om and yo_jimmy on this one, the actions of all involved (be they legal or not) resulted in a dangerous situation.

Had this occured at my workplace it would have been treated at a "near miss", much the same manner as one our managers having a head on on his bike with onther cyclist that cut a corner on one of riverside bikeways.

yo_jimmy

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 10:46am

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Quote: Kenzo

Quote: yo_jimmy

Quote: Kenzo

Hey Om.. when you're riding on the road and you want to get into a driveway on the right, how do you do it without turning right?

It isn't about how he turned right. It is the fact that it is close to the intersection and how would drivers know he wanted to turn at that driveway and not at the intersection ahead? Regardless of rules, his correct actions etc it is obviously not clear to the driver what is happening and this turned into a dangerous situation.

It was not a dangerous situation until the driver turned it into one.

And Ky, as one of our intellectual superiors once said, "Stupid is as stupid does".

The inability of Ox's actions to be understood is what turned this into a dangerous situation. The drivers actions were just the outcome.

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March 11, 2010 10:49am

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Quote: Kenzo

And Ky, as one of our intellectual superiors once said, "Stupid is as stupid does".

Funny, I was just thinking the same thing.

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 12:02pm Updated 11-03-2010 12:38 pm by X

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Wow everyone still has a bee in their bonnet, guys build a bridge and get over it. I don't like what lots of other riders do cowering to the "overlords" of the road, but that is their problem.

Om, welcome to last weekmonth by the way.

pain is temporary, quitting is forever

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March 11, 2010 12:37pm

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Just because your actions have become part of the discussion (as opposed to the back-patting you were expecting) doesnt mean the discussion should end.

Its interesting seeing everyones views and opinions (however childish).

Kenzo

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March 11, 2010 12:46pm

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Well, Ky did start this thread.... and on page 1:

Quote: Ky

Motorists just need to pull their heads in and realise that they need to give way to cyclists at all time, and get over it. Stop having a cry about have to slow down and wait to safely pass for 10 seconds, delaying their world record beating time to the next red light.

The attitude that "I pay, Im bigger and I can kill you" will only end up with someone injured/handicapped/dead and someone elses life worth less.

Its amazing riding to work, and getting literally buzzed by cars who dont want to wait that extra moment to get past me - then watch them give 2 coppers on hybrids a lepper-like avoidance...

Its not about safety, or rego, or money, or taxes, or accountability - its just about bad attitudes.

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Klunker Schlumper
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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 12:57pm

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an alternative view from a person I showed it to was this:

he passed you on the right because that is the way he always expects to pass you as a cyclist. passing a cyclist on the left is not within his ability to comprehend, its not a thought process that he is used to accomodating.

probably the most honest response I've heard about the video and purely from a non cyclist point of view. not that it excuses the dangerous driving mind you.

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March 11, 2010 01:02pm

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Quote: Kenzo

Well, Ky did start this thread.... and on page 1:

Quote: Ky

Motorists just need to pull their heads in and realise that they need to give way to cyclists at all time, and get over it. Stop having a cry about have to slow down and wait to safely pass for 10 seconds, delaying their world record beating time to the next red light.

The attitude that "I pay, Im bigger and I can kill you" will only end up with someone injured/handicapped/dead and someone elses life worth less.

Its amazing riding to work, and getting literally buzzed by cars who dont want to wait that extra moment to get past me - then watch them give 2 coppers on hybrids a lepper-like avoidance...

Its not about safety, or rego, or money, or taxes, or accountability - its just about bad attitudes.

Your point being?

3rd Idiot

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March 11, 2010 01:03pm

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Quote: X

Wow everyone still has a bee in their bonnet, guys build a bridge and get over it. I don't like what lots of other riders do cowering to the "overlords" of the road, but that is their problem.

Om, welcome to last weekmonth by the way.

"Build a bridge and get over it" - I think that is the key issue here. That particular R hand turn is faced by many of us on our daily commute. it is on what must be pretty much the main cycle route into the city from the Northside and when there is traffic requires some confidence to pull off. I must admit (right or wrong) that I regularly do a similar manouvre in exactly that spot. Perhaps council could build a bridge (or more practicle way for cyclists to cross safely) so we can get over it.

Kenzo

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 01:12pm

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My point being the discussion does not need to end.. afterall, people's opinions can change and vary.

Share our point of view, and maybe have a new perspective. The post (of yours) I quoted shows your POV on the day - especially the line: "give way to cyclists at all time". You've changed your view since posting it.

PtZell

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March 11, 2010 01:25pm

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excuse me X..

THIS is what you should be doin if I read it right..

Cheers

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Ky-s-Ox-should-turn-LEFT-route

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Where will it end?

March 11, 2010 01:27pm Updated 11-03-2010 01:31 pm by Ky

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Quote: Kenzo

My point being the discussion does not need to end.. afterall, people's opinions can change and vary.

Share our point of view, and maybe have a new perspective. The post (of yours) I quoted shows your POV on the day - especially the line: "give way to cyclists at all time". You've changed your view since posting it.

After a few close calls, my attitude has changed somewhat - my view remains. Cyclists are the more vulnerable peice of the equation, and while drivers feel they should be removed, I feel they should be catered for - like everyone else here. My attitude has changed after realising that by acting all militant on the roads (as opposed to more constructive actions), the only person whos going to end up getting cleaned up and in hospital or worse is me.

Some seem to feel more inclined to bait situations to get nasty results to get approval from their mates. I prefer to stay alive, and I dont particularly care what people on a forum think. I use my camera to record having fun smashing up singletrack (and myself) now, and stay off busy roads as much as possible, and ride as defensively as possible otherwise.

However, this turn of the discussion came from a video seeking approval and praise for ousting an "evil cager" when it appears that alot agree here that both are to blame for that situation (not the outcome). I dont beleive its doing "the cause" any good at all; in fact I'd hazard a guess that its further deteriorated relations between road users.

Personally, Im interested to see the rearward-facing footage of the incident. But, given its absence to date, I doubt we will.

This is starting to sound like a Today Tonight transcript really.

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March 11, 2010 01:28pm

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Quote: PtZell

excuse me X..

THIS is what you should be doin if I read it right..

Cheers

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Ky-s-Ox-should-turn-LEFT-route

Perfect.

DrGeoff

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March 11, 2010 01:58pm

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Wow X! You've stimulated some enormous discussion on this topic.

I'd really like you to silence your critics once and for all and show us the rear-facing footage.

Without it, even I'm tending to agree (albeit reluctantly) with Ky and PtZell.

I'm just thinking, if it were me; I'd just pull over in the bike lane and slow down to turn OR stop and walk my bike across the road if necessary. My entire life is more precious than a few minutes of my time and certainly more precious than my pride or ego.

So I'm going to continue cowering (defensively) to the overlords of the road - that way I'll live a lot longer.

Live the Life